TRANSCRIPTION

Torrey DeVitto:

I have a lot of really lovely friends and some are very vocal and some are not, and there is a lot of fear that goes into speaking out. If there’s a lot of fear involved, everybody has to go at their own pace.

Jay Ruderman:

Torrey DeVitto had something of an unconventional childhood. She grew up fast on the road with her mother and father, a touring musician.

Torrey DeVitto:

There was a level of growing up a little faster, and you’re around these people and you see all these people that you call aunt and uncle who other people adore and think are icons. And that when you’re little is kind of a mind trip, because you’re like, “Wait, why?”

Jay Ruderman:

What Torrey DeVitto learned on the road helped her keep a level head and be her authentic self. Those were lessons that came in handy when she pursued a career in the entertainment industry.

Torrey DeVitto:

I’m around a lot of big egos all the time. It’s very energy sucking. I realized, I was like, but this also gives me that platform to speak about the things I like. And so whenever I would get a little down being on set or something, I would remind myself of that. So, those shows definitely, especially with young females, gave me a really big voice to talk about the things that matter.

Jay Ruderman:

Torrey uses her platform for many important causes. She centers her activism around creating a better world for young women in particular.

Torrey DeVitto:

You want to create what you didn’t have really, especially for me, for other young women, it’s important to create for them what I didn’t have.

Jay Ruderman:

Torrey has had a very successful career starring in shows like Pretty Little Liars, The Vampire Diaries and Chicago Med, and she’s about to take on a new role being a mother.

Torrey DeVitto, thank you so much for being my guest on All About Change. I’m really looking forward to this discussion.

Torrey DeVitto:

Yes, me as well. Thank you for having me. I’m very excited to be here.

Jay Ruderman:

First of all, I want to congratulate you on your pregnancy and engagement.

Torrey DeVitto:

Thank you.

Jay Ruderman:

And a happy belated birth. I understand that it was recently your birthday and it was a big one.

Torrey DeVitto:

Yes, it was. It was the big four-oh.

Jay Ruderman:

Well, you’re a baby right now, but what does 40 mean, turning 40 mean to you right now?

Torrey DeVitto:

It’s so funny. Even when I was in my young twenties, I used to always say to all my friends and everything, I felt like my life was going to really start at 40, and I didn’t know why. I just always felt that way and I really struggled in my twenties with anxiety and really couldn’t figure things out in my twenties. I still have things to work on every day, as does everyone, but there’s just this settling in your body and your mind. I feel like you just don’t care as much about your surroundings and what people think. So to me, 40 represented a comfort that I couldn’t to get to. And now that I’m here, I can confirm from my point of view, it was literally everything I was hoping it would be.

Jay Ruderman:

So Torrey, you’ve been acting for many years and you said that in your twenties you dealt with anxiety. Since we talk a lot about mental health, how did you deal with that at the time?

Torrey DeVitto:

I actually would put it into my work. So, I felt like acting was very cathartic for me because especially if I had a very emotionally, a high emotional scene, I would use my anxiety to amp me up and I would use my fear that I was going to disappoint everybody around me almost as an emotional trigger. And it really worked for a long time until I finally woke up and was like, “This is exhausting. There has to be a bit of the easier way.” And then realize that you can go even deeper without anxiety.

But in my twenties I really leaned on it a lot in a weird way. And so as much as it’s like anxiety is something we all fight against, in that moment, it did act as a gift and it was a huge learning experience for me, one that I wouldn’t take back. But I definitely showed up on set very timid. I was always worried I wasn’t going to be liked. I was worried I wasn’t going to do a good job, that I get fired. So, that kind of stress is just such a waste of time and it’s so mentally taxing. But luckily, like I said, I could put all those feelings into my work.

Jay Ruderman:

You’ve had such a successful career, but I want to talk a little bit about your childhood and you had sort of an unusual childhood growing up on the road a lot with your parents. And I’m wondering if you could talk about what it was like growing up and how those experiences shaped you? I understand your dad, Liberty, was a drummer with Billy Joel for many, many, many years. So, what was that like?

Torrey DeVitto:

It’s so funny, because it’s like you only know what you know, right? So it wasn’t until I got a little older and people were like, “That’s so cool,” that I was like… Well, yeah, obviously, I was aware enough to know traveling with my parents and my family and stuff like that was so cool. But I didn’t really know anything different. So I do feel like there was so much of my childhood that really put me in the position and helped me navigate, especially the career that I chose as an adult because it really kind of forced me to grow up a little bit. Because my mom always said, “If you weren’t as well behaved as you were and on the planes and things like that,” my mom probably would’ve chosen to stay home more rather than take me out on the road with them.

And so there was a level of growing up a little faster and you’re around these people and you see all these people that you call aunt and uncle who other people adored, think are icons. And that when you’re little is such a kind of a mind trip, because you’re like, “Wait, why? They’re just people. I don’t understand.” And I’m so grateful for that piece because once I got into acting and I started working, it really helped me navigate egos that I was coming up against because I went into it like we’re all people. And for people who didn’t agree with that and maybe had a certain attitude that I didn’t agree with, it’s like, I grew up around people that a lot of the masses think are icons and they didn’t throw this kind of attitude. What is actually going on here? So it really helped, I feel like keep my head on straight.

Jay Ruderman:

So you’ve had a very impressive career. You’ve been on Chicago Med, Vampire Diaries, One Tree Hill, Pretty Little Liars. How have these roles influenced the issues that you have chosen to focus on as an activist?

Torrey DeVitto:

I don’t know that the roles per se really did, but each show put me in a different position and gave me a broader audience. And with that, I was very aware that there was more ears to speak to. And I’ve always had very strong opinions about things I felt passionate about, whether it be female rights, human rights, animal rights. And so when I was about 26 and the business was still not totally making sense to me, and I just felt like, “Gosh, I’m around a lot of big egos all the time. It’s very energy sucking. I’m in a lot of reconditioned air. I’m not outside all the time. I’m not seeing when it turns from day to night and night to day, and I was getting a little depressed.” I realized. I was like, “But this also gives me that platform to speak about the things I like.” And so whenever I would get a little down being on set or something, I would remind myself of that. So those shows definitely, especially with young females, gave me a really big voice to talk about the things that matter.

Jay Ruderman:

So, why do you think some people who achieve a certain level of fame choose not to speak out, whereas you are very confident about speaking out and not afraid at all? And where does that come from?

Torrey DeVitto:

I’ve always had this need to speak out since I was little. If I saw something bothering me or an injustice happening, I just couldn’t sit still or keep quiet. I know people come down so hard on celebrities who don’t speak out. And yes, I think there are some people that don’t speak out just because maybe they don’t really care and that I fundamentally disagree with. I think you have to care about something in your life. But I have a lot of really lovely friends and some are very vocal and some are not, and there’s a lot of fear that goes into speaking out.

And I’ve talked to them and I’ve seen the fear of it’s so scary, the safety issue, you just get attacked. People online can be so vicious. And so I never judge anyone for not speaking out on certain things. If there’s a lot of fear involved, everybody has to go at their own pace. And for whatever reason, I don’t have that fear in my body. I don’t know why, but I definitely don’t judge people that do because it’s scary. People can be nasty.

Jay Ruderman:

Yeah. And how do you deal with that from a mental health perspective of the trolls and the people who are saying nasty things about you and that you’re seeing these comments? How do you deal with it?

Torrey DeVitto:

I mean, I don’t really look anymore to be honest with you. I don’t look at the comments and luckily, I have it set up on my Instagram where the first comments are always people I follow. And then once I see it started to shift, I kind of shut it off, which I think is a little unfortunate because sometimes I think people can say some really interesting things, and I’m missing that because of the negative comments. But I have to put myself first in that way where I can’t read everything. I just can’t. It really does take a toll on you no matter how much you say you don’t care when you read people saying the nastiest things about you because of an opinion you have on something.

And especially for me, there’s not a single opinion that I have that I put out there that is not completely grounded and rooted in love and love for people and just wanting unity. And so whenever I get such horrible backlash and I hear people call me a baby murderer and all these horrible things, I’m like, “Oh my God, how are you so misconstruing everything I say?” So it can make you really sad. But for that reason, I just don’t look anymore because I just can’t.

Jay Ruderman:

You mentioned the issue of fear and that you’re not a person that’s afraid. Where does that come from?

Torrey DeVitto:

I really don’t know because, and I say this very lovingly, and I’m sure my mom would admit it too, my mom has a lot of fear. And so I think maybe that’s where it comes from, because I saw my mom fearful. My mom is the most sparkly, gorgeous human being when she walks in the room, you’re just so attracted to her energy. But I did always see a fear of maybe her wanting to be liked and really caring if people liked her or not. And also her fear with me and me speaking out all the time and like, “Oh God, what if somebody hurt you?” I don’t know. All those things.

So, I think growing up around that fear and realizing and trying to talk to my mom and being like, “Just don’t care about it.” So I almost think that my mom’s fear like that and me seeing that and going, “Okay, if she could just get over this fear, life would be so much more joyful.” And so I think that I made a promise to myself, I’m not going to carry that through. I’m not going to take on that fear. It’s not mine, it’s hers. She can keep it. I don’t want it.

Jay Ruderman:

Yeah, we learn a lot from our parents, whether it’s-

Torrey DeVitto:

We do.

Jay Ruderman:

… how to emulate them or how to change.

Torrey DeVitto:

A hundred percent.

Jay Ruderman:

Yeah. That’s wonderful. I want to talk about an issue that you’ve been very vocal on, if you feel comfortable about reproductive rights. Can you talk about why this cause is so important to you?

Torrey DeVitto:

Yeah. Well, first and foremost, I feel like any person should have the right of complete autonomy over their own body. This is your vessel, and especially for women right now, for primarily men, women too, to be saying, “No, actually, this is how we are going to govern your body,” is so mind blowing to me that it hurts. It hurts my soul. And so that to me is so important to always fight for, for the right for a woman to be able to choose what happens to her body. And then beyond that, what I’ve realized is so many people take abortion as so black and white. They’re like, “You got yourself into this. You should have this baby.” When I had an abortion, I chose that it wasn’t the right time for me, and that was it. And I am so grateful to have had that choice.

But that’s just a small, small, small spec of people that need fundamental care like abortion. I mean, women who have miscarriage, it’s health, it’s their health, miscarriage, rape, incest, all these other issues of why women seek abortions. It’s so frustrating to me that some people can’t see that. It’s like, why does an 11-year-old girl in Texas not have the right to an abortion when she was raped? That is so vile and revolting and heartbreaking to me that people are like, “No, no.” I’m like, how? And that’s why I stay on the comments section mostly because to me it’s like, why would you make a child suffer for something that wasn’t their choice?

Jay Ruderman:

Yeah. I have a daughter who’s 18, and when I read your story about… and you were very open. Can you talk about that time and why that decision was right for you at the time?

Torrey DeVitto:

Yeah. I was young. It was my boyfriend that I had since high school. We’d been on and off and he was young. We were both starting off our careers, and I remember I was living in this crappy apartment with roommates and I found out I was pregnant. I remember we were sitting on the bed and we were both dumbstruck. We didn’t even know. It was like earth shattering. I didn’t know what to do. I just knew, we both knew instantly this was not the time. We were not capable human beings of bringing a child into this life.

And we called my mom and I had so much support from my mom and my family, and luckily because of that support, my mom helped me make all the arrangements and I flew home, but it was just such a scary time. And then what was really interesting to me is that happened, I went like this and then I moved on. And then recently with all this stuff, the overturning of Roe v. Wade and all these things happening has triggered so much emotion in me. And I was talking to this friend of mine who’s an energy healer, Janet Raftis, and she’s so beautiful and amazing, and she was like, “Have you ever taken a moment to grieve the abortion?” And I was like, “No, because I always felt like grieving the abortion would mean that I don’t stand for abortion.” And she was like, “That is so not true. You can have all your beliefs, but you can still grieve that moment. It’s a huge moment.”

And so almost 20 years later, I went through this beautiful grieving process and it just made my activism work even stronger because it’s so complex. It’s so complex. But yeah, luckily I had so much support and luckily there was nobody in the government system trying to tell me what I could do with my body. And it was easy for me. I can’t imagine what it’s like for young women in my position nowadays.

Jay Ruderman:

So, what led you years later to come out and give a personal example rather than just advocating for a cause, but just say, “No, I want to talk about what happened to me?”

Torrey DeVitto:

Talking about things surrounding reproductive rights and also even talking about things within… talking to kids and teens about consent and sexual assault and all that kind of stuff has always been very, very important to me because I felt like when I was younger, I didn’t have anybody that showed me where my rights were, what my boundaries were, where my no was. So for the last seven years or so, I’ve been working with and on the board of directors of this organization called Safe Bay that talks to young kids in schools about sexual consent. And so I go there, I go to those schools and I talk to these kids.

So when all this stuff was happening with the overturning of Roe v. Wade and all this stuff, I just felt like I wanted to share my story because I wanted people to know I’m not just standing there with you, I am you. I have gone through this. I know what you feel. I know the emotions. I know how complex it is. I’m not just talking out of my ears. This is very real to me. And it’s the same like when I go to talk to these kids about sexual consent and stuff. It’s like nobody told me where my no was when I was in high school and there was situations that happened that I wish I had a mentor or somebody older than me that I could have looked to. I grew up in a very boys will be boys type world, and I just didn’t have that. And so I think what’s important sometimes is you want to create what you didn’t have really, especially for me, for other young women, it’s important to create for them what I didn’t have.

Jay Ruderman:

So Torrey, you talk about also later in your late twenties using the abortion aid process during a miscarriage. Can you talk about that and what happened and why that was important?

Torrey DeVitto:

Yeah. So, I had gotten pregnant and around, I think it was like eight weeks or something like that, I had gone in to hear the heartbeat and there wasn’t a heartbeat. And the doctors told me, “You need to take the abortion pill so that you can expel of everything in your body because if you don’t, you’ll get very, very sick.” So I had to go to another place and get the pill. Luckily, I had my sister who could stay with me through that 24 hours because it’s very painful. And yeah, I can’t imagine if that… I don’t even know what that would’ve looked like if that wasn’t available to me. And that’s what I try to talk to people about. I’m like, “Take away then you being mad at somebody’s just right to choose.”

There was just a woman I read in the news, she had a miscarriage and I think it was 14 weeks or something like that, and there was no heartbeat, and they refused to treat her and she died. That is crazy. That’s so crazy. So I felt like that was really important for me to come out with too, because it was like, without that, I could have died. I would’ve gotten very, very sick and possibly died. And women are dying because they’re having miscarriages. And that to me is so… It’s like, what are we living in the stone age? This is crazy.

Jay Ruderman:

Right. It seems like it’s such a medical necessity in a case like that to save the life of the mother. And why do you think that… First of all, what does it mean to you to have had access to reproductive healthcare at that time? Did you think about it, I’m happy that I have this ability to take this pill and it’s going to help me? Or is that something that came to you later on?

Torrey DeVitto:

Later on. I’m realizing what a massive privilege it was to be able to have access to this and not even think about it. There was nothing in my mind that said, “Oh my God, what if I can’t get this?” And I can’t imagine right now the fear wherever you’re having a miscarriage, if you’re in one of the states right now that are very problematic for this, that fear of, “Oh my God, who’s going to help me,” has got to be so scary. I have girlfriends that are pregnant right now, and I had a girlfriend say to me, “I want to take this vacation, but God forbid I go into labor early. I have to be careful about where I am.” And that is so crazy. We’re living in this world in the United States in 2024, and women are worried about being in certain states because if they give birth and something happens, they might die because nobody cares in certain states.

And it’s just, that’s horrifying. How are we going so backwards? And also the hypocrisy of, well, once the baby’s out, the lack of care and help for a mother and the baby. It’s like most of these politicians that are fighting for this, for the anti-abortion, they don’t care about the actual baby when it comes out. They only care when it’s like this fetus that they can’t see. I think that’s another big piece for me that I sit here and I read these comments and I just get so incensed because I’m like, the hypocrisy drives me wild. The lack of help for single mothers or low-income families that are struggling, especially when they have a kid and they can’t afford it and they can’t afford food and they can’t afford this, they can’t afford that. The lack of help is just mind blowing, but yet they have more care about the baby when it was inside the belly still rather than when it comes out. That to me is like, “Wait, what?” It’s crazy.

Jay Ruderman:

You have so many young fans, and why do you think it’s so important for you to be transparent on this subject? What do you want them to learn from you from speaking out?

Torrey DeVitto:

One thing I always try to do is I feel like a lot of love is missing in activism. And I think right now, and rightfully so, women especially are very, very pissed. But I always try to say, especially when I talk to young people, when you’re banging doors down and you’re screaming, you’re losing a lot of your audience. And I learned that by watching. I watched that RBG documentary on Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and I listened to this podcast with Jane Goodall, and the way they speak is so effective because they don’t yell. They’re not hateful in their speech, which I understand where it’s coming from. I understand the anger. I want to get hateful sometimes too, but you lose your audience. And so I always try to tell them, think about what you’re saying and make sure it’s rooted in love and your truth.

I also feel like in this world of social media and all this other stuff, it’s just everything is so filtered and sake and you just never know what to believe. And so taking that responsibility of knowing, there’s a lot of young girls watching me and it’s like, “Look, I’m being me. I’m telling you everything truthfully. I’m not slapping filters on how I feel or my face. We’re here, we’re here together. You can do this too. You can be your full authentic self and be accepted, and you don’t have to do things because society tells you you should do them.”

Jay Ruderman:

What do you think people who maybe not on one side or the other, but in the middle, what do you think that they may be missing about this issue of reproductive rights?

Torrey DeVitto:

I think people who lie in the middle are usually people who haven’t been affected or haven’t loved someone who’s been affected. Once you have yourself or a sister or a mother or a daughter or a niece go through something and you see it, you’re not going to be in the middle anymore.

Jay Ruderman:

That’s great. I wanted to ask you about another area of your activism because I thought it was… when I was learning about you, it’s so unusual, but so meaningful, your work in hospice care. Where does that come from and how did you get involved in that?

Torrey DeVitto:

That just kind of landed in my lap in a really weird way. I think I was 24 or 25 and I was on a show, and to me it was a very, very dark set with a lot of negative energy. And it was the first time I was on a big show that everybody was seeing in that way. And so I was so excited for it. But then when I got there, I was like, “This is awful. Showing up to work like this every day is awful. I’m scared. I want to go home. I don’t like this.” But I knew I wanted to still act because I loved it. And so I was thinking to myself, well, what can I do to combat these feelings? And I was like, “Okay, well, maybe I’ll start volunteering somewhere, put my energy elsewhere when I’m not working.”

And I thought, “Oh, maybe I’ll volunteer at children’s hospital or something.” I didn’t really know. I had no direction. And I just typed in Children’s Hospital and in my Google search, it popped up on hospice and I had no idea what it was. I’d never heard of hospice before. I clicked on it. I called them, they were like, “Oh, we’re having a patient care training starting this weekend for the next three weeks. Come.” And I was like, “Okay.” I went to the training. It was all day Saturday and Sunday for two or three weeks. I just fell in love with it. I was like, “Oh my God, I don’t know how this found me because I didn’t even Google this.” So I felt like it was very meant to be.

And all my family and friends were like, “But you’re a little depressed right now, isn’t being around people who are dying going to be bad for you?” And honestly, it gave me such a light because whatever was going on in my life, I was sitting with these people. And I will tell you this, I went to people’s houses who clearly had a ton of money. I went and saw people at nursing homes who had pretty much nothing. I saw everyone. And the one thing I will say is when all these people were dying, no matter what differences they had, what background differences they had, none of them brought up their career to me ever, career or money, none of them.

They all just wanted to talk about while they were dying, who they loved, who they regretted not loving, where they traveled, and family. That was it. Everyone wanted to talk about that. And it put such a perspective in my life, and I always walked away from these patients feeling like, yes, we help babies come into the earth so it makes sense to help them then go out and to whatever is next. And so I always looked at it as a positive thing. And then whenever I got down, I was reminded myself of that. I was like, at the end of life, nobody sits there talking about their career and how much money they have.

Jay Ruderman:

Right. Right. It’s such a beautiful thing because we all are excited when a baby is being born, which is such, having four children, it’s such a beautiful experience. But it’s also so beautiful to give back and to be with people, including some people who may be alone at the time that they’re leaving this earth and there’s nothing they can give back to you. So it’s such a selfless act of helping someone.

Torrey DeVitto:

Yeah, I think there’s so much beauty in death that unfortunately we miss, especially in America. I feel like some cultures still honor it that way, but it’s really rare. It’s such a scary taboo thing, and it really should be not happy. But I read this book and I wish I could remember what it was, but the woman was saying that her mother’s one request, it was like her, her sister and her brother, and the mother was dying. And she said, “My one request is that when I die, I want you guys to laugh.” And they said they were all surrounded her mother in her hospital room, and her mom died and they were devastated.

And then they remembered what their mom said, and they were thinking, “How are we going to laugh? We’re devastated.” And then one started and then it trickled, and it became this beautiful… Oh my God, I have chills right now. It became this beautiful thing, and I was like, “Oh my God, I can’t imagine laughing around one of my… I’d be devastated too.” But to honor your mom’s wish in that way and to make that a part of her death, that’s so beautiful.

Jay Ruderman:

Yeah, that’s a beautiful story. Well, Torrey, I really want to thank you for your authenticity. You’re an extremely authentic person, and for your activism and your boldness in speaking out on issues that are really important to so many people in society and to all of us. So, thank you Torrey DeVitto for being my guest on All About Change. I’ve really enjoyed this discussion and I wish you success and I wish you a successful delivery. So, thank you so much.

Torrey DeVitto:

Thanks for having me.

Jay Ruderman:

Torrey’s passion for activism and her career brings a refreshing authenticity to what can be an inauthentic industry. I think we can all take a page from her book and remember to root our activism in love. That’s it for today’s episode. Join us two weeks from today for my talk with former Canadian first lady, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. Today’s episode was produced by Rebecca Chaisson with story editing by Yochai Maital and Mijon Zulu. To check out more episodes or to learn more about the show, you can visit our website, allaboutchangepodcast.com. If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We’d really appreciate it. All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation in partnership with Pod people. That’s all for now. I’m Jay Ruderman, and we’ll see you next time on All About Change.