TRANSCRIPTION

Princess Noor Pahlavi:

I think there’s this theme in my family of duty to their countrymen transcending any pain that one person might feel in the moment and a bigger picture they’re all fighting for. It’s such a unique privilege for us to be in a position to help others on this scale and to play an active role in bringing about change.

Jay Ruderman:

It’s not every day that I get a chance to talk to a real-life princess. Today, I’ll be talking to Princess Noor Pahlavi, a member of the exiled Iranian royal family. Born in the US, Noor could have opted to live a normal life, to remain in the shadows. Instead, she chose to leverage her unique heritage to give a voice to the oppressed people of her homeland, to continue her family’s legacy of civic duty. We’ll be talking about gender equality in an oppressive regime, about democracy, women’s health, and hope for the Iranian people. It’s an honor and absolute pleasure to welcome Noor to our show. Noor, welcome to All About Change.

Princess Noor:

Thank you for having me.

Jay Ruderman:

So Noor, your father as the Crown Prince has been a symbol and an advocate for democracy in Iran to Iranians who are living outside of Iran and those living inside Iran. When you were growing up, what type of stories, what did you learn about your grandfather, the Shah?

Princess Noor:

I mostly heard about who he was rather than what he did. So a person who was very kind of soft-spoken, loved his wife, loved his dogs, loved his kids, kind of had a sensitive stomach, was very low maintenance, and also kind of a suffer-on-the-inside type, but definitely sensitive to his people, their sentiment. And I’d heard a few things. I had a high school teacher who worked for the Carter administration, and I remember hearing some things in that class that I went and asked my grandmother about when I came home. And she is not a reactive person, and I’ve never actually seen her stirred apart from in this conversation where she was just… She sat me down and just laid it all out, all of the misconceptions in the United States that they have about what happened then, the US’s role in the revolution, and what people who worked in the Carter administration have said to her since, expressing apologies and stuff like that for the way they really turned their backs on him when he needed them most.

And I think that that was also the conversation where she talked a lot about what he did for Iran as a country for his people, for women, for families, for the environment, for the progress of the economy, the vision he had of a country that isn’t solely reliant on oil for fossil fuels, but treats it as a precious resource, bringing people from the cities to the rural areas to expand access to education, sending people abroad to get access to other countries and bring back what they know and really trying to integrate Iran into the global landscape and build bridges.

And I think it’s such a shame now because if he could see what Iran’s become, it’s the complete antithesis of what he had in mind. It’s now a passport you don’t want to have, it’s a country that’s feared and a country that shuts its people off, even if it involves cutting off internet access from anything that doesn’t align with its really rigid ideology. My grandfather wanted minorities to have a voice. He welcomed Jewish people, he welcomed people of all faiths. He was open to anyone having a voice in government, in leading educational institutions, in business. And I think, again, the laws that are in place now, everything that makes life for these people in Iran, for women, for religious minorities, for gay people, for everything, I think if he could see what’s become of this country, he would die all over again.

Jay Ruderman:

Right. I want to switch and talk about your grandmother, the Empress Farah Pahlavi, and what influence she’s had on you in terms of fashion, in terms of advocating for the Iranian people. What do you remember at a young age the messages that she gave you?

Princess Noor:

She’s a really, really special person. I think what messages she gave me when I was growing up usually had to do with making sure I understood Iranian culture for what it was and the truth behind its people and the beauty, the openness, the art, the intelligence, the education, everything that was true about the people when she was there and that still is, and the warmth of this culture. And beyond that, it was a lot of messages about treating all other living things with kindness, with respect, trees, animals, and not to value material things at all. I think that really came from her leaving Iran with nothing but jean shorts and her photo albums. The way that she never talks about things she used to have, she’s very in the moment and just very grateful for her family and for the love she still feels from the Iranian people who reach out to her all the time.

And what I’ve learned most from watching her though is the grace with which she faced unbearable loss, first her country, then her husband, and more recently her two children to suicide. I think there’s this theme in my family of duty to their countrymen transcending any pain that one person might feel in the moment and a bigger picture they’re all fighting for. And I think being a mother to Iran has always pulled her through the trials that she’s faced in her personal life. And I understand her. It’s such a unique privilege for us to be in a position to help others on this scale and to play an active role in bringing about change, and I think that really has been something she’s clung to to pull her through.

Jay Ruderman:

Well, she seems like a beautiful person. I want to talk about the current Islamic regime in Iran. How would you describe them, and in your opinion, what are their goals? I remember the revolution, and I remember that Iran was a fairly modern country with a modern outlook, with people who were happy. And now to see the repressive nature, not only of the Islamic Republic, but also the export of terrorism is problematic for the region and for the world. And I saw a post that you put up, and maybe you can talk about this, that when we say Iran, you don’t want us to refer to Iran as Iran, but as the Islamic Republic.

Princess Noor:

Right.

Jay Ruderman:

Can you talk about that a little bit, about what that means to you?

Princess Noor:

Yeah. First, I feel it’s really important to clarify for those who are less familiar with Iran that this government should only be referred to really in the context of it being Iran’s occupiers. They’re in no way representative at Iran’s population. They represent their own pursuit of fundamentalist Islam, which they want to export and impose on the rest of the world, its proliferation both domestically and abroad, and they’re constantly preaching to this effect. If you watch videos of clerics inside Iran and what they’re saying, our Western values are the enemy that threaten that. When foreign countries address them or negotiate with them as Iran’s representative, it legitimizes them, and this legitimacy is a slap in the face to all who are risking their lives and giving them every day inside Iran to fight this government.

And secondly, there’s a huge misconception here that this government has been democratically elected. Despite appearances of having elections, these are heavily controlled by the radical Islamic clerics and the supreme leader as holding the ultimate authority. Since 1979 through propaganda, through brutal force against its people, they maintained their grip on power, and the elections are not free or fair. Only candidates approved by the regime can participate to ensure that this ruling class remains in control. And make no mistake, the supreme leader pulls these strings, and the regime’s priorities are not the welfare of its people, but in maintaining this ideological and political dominance. And all the proof is there. They’re lining their own pockets, funding terrorism, and letting their own people starve. They’re the enemy of any freedom-loving person. And so when I hear people apologizing for them or attributing their actions to a different source, I really ask that they educate themselves or listen to the speeches they give to galvanize people against the West.

And they wreak havoc on all of us through their proxies every day. They’re the head of an octopus, and organizations like Hamas are the legs. And I want to say to Americans that you’re not untouchable. If you think you’ve not been affected by Iran, in some way you have. Think again. And if things continue down this track with nobody supporting the Iranian people to stop them, being stripped of freedoms won’t just be an Iran problem, it’ll come right to your doorstep, because they view America as the devil, and they’ll do whatever they can to infiltrate it. It started in Israel, it’s going to happen here. It’s already started on university campuses here and election meddling, and it will only get worse as they get emboldened as they approach a nuclear weapon.

Jay Ruderman:

Noor, let’s talk about life for Iranians in the Islamic Republic. I’ve seen many videos during protests, and there’s a love, I remember during the hijab protest, women walking in the street without the hijab, giving each other gifts, hugging each other, smiling. There was a story of, you probably know this story, of a man who was dancing, it was a shopkeeper, and his dance went viral all over Iran. So can you talk about the Iranian people and what their lives look like?

Princess Noor:

Yeah. So because they live under a government that’s more interested in holding on to power and spreading radical Islam than helping its own country and people thrive, they’re facing severe economic challenges and oppressive social conditions. Basic necessities like bread and eggs have become luxuries for many Iranians because of rampant inflation, the devaluation of their currency, infrastructure, electricity, and water systems is severely outdated, dating back to when my grandfather was there. This has led to frequent power outages, water shortages, which I talked about a bit on my Instagram. And I frequently get videos from Iranians in sweltering heat struggling to keep their businesses running with no power in the middle of the day and no AC.

And one thing the regime especially doesn’t care about, which those who overthrew my grandfather pointed to as a sign that he was delusional when he attempted to prioritize it, is the environment. Iranians often joked that soon the regime would charge them for oxygen. And now after decades of severe neglect, pollution issues have made the air in so many cities dangerously toxic, and it breaks my heart to see the toll that this is taking physically on Iranian people. And beyond mismanagement of funds. The social conditions in Iran, as you know, are dire. They have the highest per-capita execution rate in the world, and there’s been a significant increase in the executions following the 2022 protests that Mahsa Amini’s death triggered.

And the regime also routinely persecutes religious minorities and ethnic minorities where they’re contributing to this atmosphere of fear of oppression. And there’s also the highest child execution rate in the world, and you can be jailed or killed for leaving the Islamic faith and denied education. Unmarried men and women are banned from being together in public or showing affection. Dogs are considered illegal. They’re rounded up and killed by the regime. Anyone who speaks out against this government is at risk of brutal repression. And Iran’s prisons are now filled with intellectuals and some of Iran’s bravest and brightest, because they have no basic protection. Even lawyers for political prisoners or families demanding answers for their loved ones are being thrown in jail. So this regime is doing this with impunity, and their policies are emboldened by Western weakness and appeasement in regards to this government.

Jay Ruderman:

It’s a horrific situation. Maybe you can talk a little bit about what freedoms were present when your grandparents were ruling the country.

Princess Noor:

It’d be so much harder to even talk about what freedoms were not present, because my grandpa made my grandma the first female regent, which empowered her to stand in as a leader should anything happen to… until my father came of age, which was extremely progressive for the time. A good amount of family law had been passed that some Western countries don’t even have today. We don’t have that much help sometimes with family planning, child care, maternity leave, but that was a priority. My grandpa banned polygamy, unilateral male divorce. He allowed mothers custody of children, he raised the legal marriage age. The mandatory headscarf was removed by my great-grandfather. He gave women the right to choose if they want to be covered or not.

And there were a bunch of other freedoms granted that I think we might take for granted over here in the US back then, but the Islamic Republic revoked every single one of these provisions in 1979. Women were the first casualties of the Iranian Revolution. And we talked a bit about it before, but my grandfather really wanted to open Iran up to the rest of the world and make sure that his people progressed with the rest of the world and played an active role in the global economy, and I think it’s such a shame.

Jay Ruderman:

So we’ve all seen these horrific videos of women being taken off the street and pushed into vans. Can you talk a little bit about the state of affairs for women currently in the Islamic Republic?

Princess Noor:

Yeah. I’ve always been surprised that this wasn’t talked about more before the Mahsa Amini protests kicked off. But Iran ranks near the bottom of the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Index. They’re 143rd out of 146 countries. Women in Iran have no laws to protect them against gender-based violence. Their testimony in court is worth half of the man’s. They receive half of the inheritance of their male counterparts. The legal marriage age was lowered from I think between 15 and 18 to 9 after the revolution, and later raised to 13, but younger marriages are still allowed with a judge or father’s permission, and I think that it probably it was only raised to 13 because they realized nine-year-olds can’t produce children right away. But women need their husband or male guardians’ permission to travel or get a passport. Men have the unilateral right to divorce while women can face significantly legal obstacles to do so.

They’re segregated from men in the workplace, classrooms, and public spaces like beaches. They’re banned from certain fields of study and job roles that are deemed inappropriate by the regime, Banned from attending sports events and stadiums. They can’t ride bikes or sing alone in public, which is super strange. They have no legal protections against honor killing, or if there is a punishment, it’s minor. Gender-based violence pervades them, and the perpetrators often face minimal consequences. Sexual assault is used as a tool of repression against female protesters regularly, and they’re constantly monitored by the morality police who enforce dress codes and other gender-specific laws.

So the regime has engaged in a ton of campaigns of intimidation, including poisoning schoolgirls or actively shooting protesters in the eyes to blind them. And women in religious minorities face additional discrimination, including denial of education and employment opportunities. So the situation for women in Iran is dire, and the current protests have shown the world, I think, that Iranian women are not willing to be silenced. They’re fighting back against a regime that seeks to erase our identity, their autonomy, and the world really needs to recognize the severity of their struggle and support this quest for women, life, freedom that you keep hearing chanted throughout this revolution.

Jay Ruderman:

Right.

Crowd:

[chanting in foreign language].

Jay Ruderman:

You’ve talked in the past about gender inequality in the Islamic Republic, including in healthcare, and yet you’ve been very open, your mother’s been open about talking about her own health and her experience with breast cancer. Can you talk a little bit about health care and where you think things are right now?

Princess Noor:

Sure. So my mom’s a pretty private person when it comes to her personal life. We’re not really the people who speak comfortably in front of a camera feel natural sharing aspects of our day-to-day, so a lot went into her decision to share this journey at a time that was very scary for her. And she did a lot of research into the state of healthcare in Iran and women’s access to it by speaking both to women inside and getting connected through various sources, as well as doctors who are trying to get care to these patients or trying to raise awareness in the region. And her reasoning for sharing her struggle was providing a lens into it might help combat some of the taboos associated with women’s health discussions in Iran, and she hoped it would empower women to talk more about this and raise awareness. And so many people face this in their lives, and investment in proper healthcare, particularly in rural areas, isn’t something that’s been prioritized in Iran as we’ve discussed.

What they prioritize is lining their own pockets and funding their interests of spreading radical Islam through terrorism. So in these areas, both the lack of access to the infrastructure as well as the culture, which is one where there are so many taboos surrounding talking about the female body, really, women are spoken about in the media by the government as tools to procreate and nothing more. And they started associating some kind of shame with anything to do with talking about something like their breasts or breast cancer, and that is something that my mother really wanted to change. She didn’t want people to shy away from it because this is actually a preventable illness. And being educated about it and monitoring it is something that could save lives. So she wanted to combat that moratorium around the vocabulary that the Islamic Republic has.

Jay Ruderman:

So we’ve talked about what you see in videos about the beautiful nature of how people interact with each other, but talk a little bit about your dream for women in Iran.

Princess Noor:

Yeah. My dream is it’s for them to have the freedom and autonomy over their lives that I have. I can’t think of anyone who deserves that more after the hardship they have faced and the bravery they’ve shown. And to see someday free and their elections take place in Iran and for people to have a choice in who governs them or a government that actually represents them and works for them. And my dream is for the rest of the world to stand up to this bully and to set their differences aside and hear the cries of the Iranian people and acknowledge them. This dream started to come true when I saw actors, musicians, artists, and other people with platforms highlighting the plight of Iranian women on their platforms and reposting these videos that these women have risked their lives and very often sacrificed their lives to put out into the world.

So I would love to see the US get behind them by easing sanctions or releasing frozen assets because those funds do not touch the Iranian people. They line the pockets of the few who are in charge and fund the terrorism that we’re sending troops to fight. And I would love to see them stop negotiating with a government that the people say doesn’t represent them, one who makes a mockery of us and the agreements openly and has been proven to ignore them, a case in point, the nuclear progress they’ve made. This legitimizes them, like I said, and it’s a slap in the face to all who continue to give their lives in peaceful resistance. And we shouldn’t be inviting them to speak at the United Nations. These are the number one human rights violators in the world, and assigning guards with our taxpayer dollars to protect them is ridiculous. And government shouldn’t be able to do what the regime does with impunity. It simply can’t continue. And my dream is to see that and to see Iranians freed.

Jay Ruderman:

Well, I think we stand at a pivotal time right now regarding the Islamic Republic and the world, and we’ll see what the weeks and months ahead bring. I also want to touch on your advocacy for Iranian women abroad, and what are you doing to advocate for women who are not living in Iran.

Princess Noor:

Yeah. I think some of the work that I do, it’s difficult to give too much detail on since the people I try to help, they take great personal risk to reach out to me and getting anything-

Jay Ruderman:

True.

Princess Noor:

… into Iran is so sensitive and so challenging, and it’s been a lot of work trying to create the channels for that. One initiative, for example, was, when the internet was shut down, trying to get drones in to get people back online to make sure that people continue to hear their stories and that the government isn’t able to cut Iran off from the rest of the world. But using my platform to shed light on their issues I think has helped somewhat to get their voices heard globally. I want to be a megaphone for them since they’ve been systematically silenced. And I think it’s important, though, to go beyond that as well. And there are some people here in the States who are working for the Iranian people and trying to get their stories to the right people in government and trying to influence policy here so that our policy leaders actually understand the voice of Iranians and aren’t just listening to the regime and its proxies.

And those are groups like the National Union for Democracy in Iran. It’s comprised of a mix of Iranians from all over, all ages and genders, many of whom have escaped Iran. They’re very smart, they could have chosen any path here in the States, but they choose to dedicate their lives to this, and I found them very inspiring, and I think that they’re making meaningful strides in policy in the States. And then I also work with a group called the Persian American Women’s Conference, which does a lot of work to empower women who have suffered in Iran and refugees through mental health services, and also by giving them platforms to speak about what they went through when they were in the country, and for those who still are, trying to get them the resources that they can. And yeah, I often think of what my life would’ve been like growing under different circumstances, and I just feel really strong ties to these women, especially the ones my age, and I feel it’s really important to magnify their struggle.

Jay Ruderman:

Well, thank you for everything that you’ve done in terms of your advocacy, but let’s shift to your present-day life, and tell us about your work as a member of the global advisory board at Acumen. What about their mission draws you?

Princess Noor:

So I was initially drawn to Acumen when I heard that its founder, Jacqueline Novogratz speak. She has such a deep sense of empathy and her decision to dedicate her life to bettering this world reminded me, actually, a lot of my father. I read her book, The Blue Sweater, and heard her speak and was just deeply moved by her vision. If you ever find yourself losing faith in humanity, picking up one of Jacqueline’s books will bring you home.

Jacqueline Novogratz:

On the one hand, people say the time for change is now. They want to be part of it. They talk about wanting lives of purpose and greater meaning. But on the other hand, I hear people talking about fear, a sense of risk aversion. They say, I really want to follow a life of purpose, but I don’t know where to start.

Jay Ruderman:

That’s good to know.

Princess Noor:

Yeah. It goes back to this sense of the circumstances to which we’re all born are nowhere near equal, but working to create a world where all human beings have… [inaudible 00:26:19] opportunity, a more fair world is of paramount importance, and more importantly, it can be done. And when you hear Jacqueline speak and lay out Acumen’s vision, you really feel like you can get behind it and that this business model might work if people cooperate and open up to these possibilities. And the world really needs people who are willing to redefine success through inclusion, fairness, and dignity, and it takes community, it takes courage in the face of conformity, and listening to voices unheard to redefine the rules of success.

So Acumen isn’t working on band-aid solutions to acute problems. Basically, they invest in entrepreneurs in developing countries who are tackling the most challenging issues, such as environment, healthcare, agriculture, women’s issues, and it’s helping lift these people from these communities out of poverty in a sustainable way and provides them with the tools to move their missions forward and lift up their communities. And I believe that it’s creating a deeply meaningful impact. I wish we could do this in Iran. Unfortunately, the infrastructure isn’t there yet, but hopefully one day, and part of Acumen’s model involves connecting dots across government, civil society, and the private sector to build markets for greater impact. It’s just been an incredible journey being on their advisory board, and I’m really proud of the work that they’re doing.

Jay Ruderman:

It sounds like a very empowering organization, and very vital in our world, the work that they’re doing. Finally, I want to ask you about how you conceptualize and leverage your platform, because you have a foot in two different worlds.

Princess Noor:

Yeah.

Jay Ruderman:

So what does your platform mean to you?

Princess Noor:

It’s an odd situation because I’m not an influencer. I have a day job, and it’s kind of been an accident in a way that it’s garnered a following, and there was no strategy there. It’s just kind of a place where I post things that I care about, and now that the situation in Iran has become so dire, what I care about is magnifying the voices of the people inside who are being oppressed. And I’m fortunate that it seems people see the stuff that I put out there, and I view it as a platform to broadcast the bravery of those still resisting a weapon against this regime that’s done nothing but try to smother and silence its people. And yeah, it’s just a place I talk about things I care about now.

Jay Ruderman:

Yeah. Well, Noor, I really want to thank you for being our guest in All About Change. I want to thank you for your activism and for your family’s activism on behalf of democracy in Iran and the people of Iran. Your voice is vital, along with that of your father and your grandmother and the rest of your family. And I hope someday the situation will change in Iran, the work that you’re doing will bring about change where you’ll be able to be there and to visit and to be part of that society in person.

Princess Noor:

Thank you.

Jay Ruderman:

Thank you so much for being my guest in All About Change, and I wish you to go from strength to strength.

Today’s episode was produced by Yochai Maital and Mijon Zulu. To check out more episodes or to learn more about the show, you can visit our website, allaboutchangepodcast.com. If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We’d really appreciate it. All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation. That’s all for now. I’m Jay Ruderman, and we’ll see you next time on All About Change.